Following is the second part of an interview with the Rt. Hon Edward Seaga, Leader of the Opposition Jamaica Labour Party, by Lloyd Williams, Senior Associate Editor. The first part appeared on Sunday, July 9, 2000.
MR. SEAGA elaborated on what he sees as the third attempt to destabilise his leadership of the Jamaica Labour Party (JLP):
He said that Karl Samuda having had the first meeting asked that he be allowed to give a report on it, and the party agreed. "Having had the opportunity for himself and those other persons, who they say are like-minded, to come to the party and sit down and discuss it with the officers -- I was there myself -- and having done so, it was decided at that meeting that there would be no further such meetings because the party has the machinery to deal with anybody on the outside who wants to be heard unless you are a known mischief-maker who will then go out and say I have had a meeting with the party and this is what transpired when what they say happened is far from the truth, and we don't meet with mischief-makers.
Surprise
"So having done all that it was to our great surprise that Mr. Samuda called another meeting. Coinciden-tally this happens to be on the very day that the party is about to launch the most massive organisational exercise it has undertaken ('Opera-tion Groundswell') since the 1970s, in which there is going to be a large number of high-level workers out in the field operating in various Parish Council Divisions in getting the basic organisation framework in place that is a canvass of every elector in the Parish Council Division and that is to be carried through a large number of constituencies and to be completed by September. Every weekend that will be the case.
Manifesto
"But Samuda calls a meeting and in telephoning various people to invite them, he gives them different reasons. In one case it is to discuss strategy, in another it is to discuss organisation. When it is pointed out that the party is starting its own organisational programme which he is aware of but which he does not participate in, he backs off of that and he says it is to discuss the manifesto.
"The manifesto is not discussed at low-level meetings; the manifesto is produced by a high-level policy-making body which is under my committee chairmanship, and has been from ever since I can remember in the Labour Party. He does not tell me about the meeting, he does not tell the other party spokesmen that there should be any discussion on manifesto. He is told to come to Belmont Road and say what the meeting is about. This is the first time that we are told that this is what he is intending to do. In so doing he has exceeded his authority because he has no authority to call any such meeting.
"And secondly, in not only exceeding his authority, he has sought to create a diversion from the focus of the party from the organisational programme which is to start up on this Sunday.
So he is doing something that is contrary to the thrust that the party is on and at the same time trying to undermine the existing body of persons who hold portfolios by holding meetings that have nothing to do with his responsibility. And as a result of that he has lost my confidence. It's as simple as that because he has shown that he is participating on a devious route to try to set up an opposition within the opposition and to make himself Leader of the Opposition within the opposition and I am not tolerating it and the party is not tolerating it".
Mr. Seaga said that Samuda had been given a warning with the revocation and if he continued along that line he would be further disciplined. He said that Samuda should decide whether "he is part of the party and operate within the party or if he is not he gets out. It's as simple as that".
'The Samudas...'
"I am not prepared at this stage where we are now with the final stages of settling down the party to an acceptance of the systems and structures that are in place, and respect for them, to have anybody flaunting disrespect in the face of the party, because that is exactly what would happen if I were to walk away tomorrow.
"It would be the Samudas and the others of his like-minded group who would refuse to accept the will of the party as decided by the structures that are set up democratically and the party would be in turmoil.
It is my objective to quell all of that and get rid of all of that before I step away. I am not leaving the Labour Party in a position where it is going to be overtaken by any gang whose intention is to hijack it and seize leadership for themselves when they do not have the capability of leadership. Strong words but true.
"... Once that is there then I feel my job has been done. Whether the people wish me to continue after that or whether I wish to continue after that, is a matter for decision. But my job in that respect has to be completed.
Dominance
LW: You describe yourself as a dominant leader?
Mr. Seaga smiled for the first time during the interview; chuckled, even.
"Well I don't think I have to do that. I have been so described by just about everyone around. It is because of the dominance that I can impose the will of the party -- not my will -- the will of the elected members of the party who are holding positions and who when they take decisions can't get certain elements of the party to follow through because they refuse to take leadership decisions from the others.
"So I have had to use my dominance to get the decisions through. But there should be no need for that; people must learn to respect what is the democratic way. The problem that we have is that there are those who don't respect it and we are not intending to keep that element within our ranks to continue to create destabilisation".
LW: Could you envisage a time when you would welcome back Bruce Golding into the JLP, even handing over leadership to him? Will the JLP and the NDM ever meld?
Mr. Seaga: The fact of the matter is that the Labour Party will never contemplate any merger with the NDM. The Labour Party is a recognised party, the NDM has yet to make its mark.
Bruce Golding
You don't merge a recognised entity with a non-entity in so far as making a political mark. Insofar as members of the NDM are concerned we know that there are persons there who could make a significant contribution to the political life of the country and we welcome any of them who would wish to participate with us, not as an NDM entity but as individuals who would wish to become involved and we would certainly welcome them and give them the full respect and such positions as we think they would be able to carry.
"That includes Bruce Golding himself. Our doors are open. But it is their decision, their call, their play, not ours".
At 70 years old Mr. Seaga's mind is as focused as laser. Not a misplaced comma eludes his sharp eyes.
LW: Who are you grooming as your successor, Audley Shaw?
Mr. Seaga: I am not grooming any specific successor. I have categorised the successors as persons who would be young enough, that is in the age group up to around the 60 mark. And I have indicated that there are a number of such persons who fall in that age group from whom a leader can be selected by the party members.
What I have said is that those persons who are well over that 60 mark will not be persons who the party should consider because any person going into politics in the position of leader has to look forward to at least a 10-year span and a person of that level and age cannot look forward to that. And so on that basis they would not be able to qualify.
"As I said of the succession arrangement, the party must be stabilised in its new political culture so that the new leader will be able to exercise control through the party structure and not by having to be any strong personality as I do not see that strong personality who can do so. And at any rate it is better if we have a system."
To be continued
